The debate about the sudden decline of English talent! (Revisited)

[Lennon Saviour of E]

It just won't go away will it. Try as I might I can't remember the great days of English football when there was an unlimited supply of world class talent in every position, with half a dozen electrifying wingers on both flanks battling it out for a place in the England team, as people like Jimmy Hill seem to remember.

Although I can remember the summers always being glorious, a thick layer of snow on the ground every Christmas day, in the days when comedy was funny. Remember "Robin's Nest"? They don't make comedies like that anymore eh?

Yet when we keep being told that there isn't any English football talent coming through all of a sudden (because of them pesky foreigners) I wonder how the doom-mongers make that out. To my mind we have more real talent coming through now than ever before. When in the last say, thirty years did we have a teenager as good as Rooney in his position? While at the same time having a teenage winger as good as Lennon, while having a 17 year old with the potential of Walcott?

In fact every year there seems to be at least one very, very, rare, precociously talented 14 year old youngster turning up. When did this happen in the past?

We hear a lot about the lack of technique of England's young players but the latest u16 side against Wales seemed to have an abundance of players with very good technique. I know it was only one game, and it was only Wales, but they seemed more resilient and difficult to thrash than in recent seasons.

This year's remarkably gifted 14 year old to turn up was John Bostock of Crystal Palace.

So in summing: up over the past six years we have had the following exceptional creative/attacking talents turning up: Six years ago,Wayne Rooney, the year after Aaron Lennon, then Theo Walcott, then Danny Sturridge, then four in Nathan Porrit, Victor Mosses (if he really is the age claimed), maybe Danny Rose and Michael Woods, and now John Bostock.

Out of that nine there would be no problem picking four midfielders and a couple of strikers. So when did we have such top quality young players coming through? I really can't remember.

And knuckle-heads claim we aren't producing talented young players anymore eh?

[Ronaldo]

Some poeple talk crap, there are alot of players coming through for England. There are already some young exceptional players in the big leagues such as Rooney, Walcott, lennon, Wright-Phillips, Agbonlahor and Foster to name a few.

[Renegade84]

Some poeple talk crap, there are alot of players coming through for England. There are already some young exceptional players in the big leagues such as Rooney, Walcott, lennon, Wright-Phillips, Agbonlahor and Foster to name a few.

Indeed, it has got alot better in the past year or two, there are lots of young stars in the Premiership like you mentioned, its all a matter of Mc Claren picking them for the team.:rolleyes:

[superally]

It just won't go away will it. Try as I might I can't remember the great days of English football when there was an unlimited supply of world class talent in every position, with half a dozen electrifying wingers on both flanks battling it out for a place in the England team, as people like Jimmy Hill seem to remember.

Although I can remember the summers always being glorious, a thick layer of snow on the ground every Christmas day, in the days when comedy was funny. Remember "Robin's Nest"? They don't make comedies like that anymore eh?

Yet when we keep being told that there isn't any English football talent coming through all of a sudden (because of them pesky foreigners) I wonder how the doom-mongers make that out. To my mind we have more real talent coming through now than ever before. When in the last say, thirty years did we have a teenager as good as Rooney in his position? While at the same time having a teenage winger as good as Lennon, while having a 17 year old with the potential of Walcott?

In fact every year there seems to be at least one very, very, rare, precociously talented 14 year old youngster turning up. When did this happen in the past?

We hear a lot about the lack of technique of England's young players but the latest u16 side against Wales seemed to have an abundance of players with very good technique. I know it was only one game, and it was only Wales, but they seemed more resilient and difficult to thrash than in recent seasons.

This year's remarkably gifted 14 year old to turn up was John Bostock of Crystal Palace.

So in summing: up over the past six years we have had the following exceptional creative/attacking talents turning up: Six years ago,Wayne Rooney, the year after Aaron Lennon, then Theo Walcott, then Danny Sturridge, then four in Nathan Porrit, Victor Mosses (if he really is the age claimed), maybe Danny Rose and Michael Woods, and now John Bostock.

Out of that nine there would be no problem picking four midfielders and a couple of strikers. So when did we have such top quality young players coming through? I really can't remember.

And knuckle-heads claim we aren't producing talented young players anymore eh?

Did you type all that yourself?????

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Did you type all that yourself?????

I can knock up a few lines when I have a mind. Although it was quality I must admit. There was one slight kinda flaw in my theory though.

It's actually a copy of an Email I sent to Britain's best and smartest football writer. Just to tip him off.

Anyway I was hoping someone would tell me I'm talking bollocks - people usually do on all manner of things.

So that I could explain why I'm right yet again.

[kiko]

Football in general is a bit of a lower standard in my opinion without as many stand out players as in previous years.

English talent is doing just fine.

[westboy]

To be honest I've said this before but I'd prefer to watch top class football in the premiership 30 weeks of the year than see England do better in the World Cup. My view of course and I'm sure some people would prefer to see England win the World Cup

[Lennon Saviour of E]

To be honest I've said this before but I'd prefer to watch top class football in the premiership 30 weeks of the year than see England do better in the World Cup. My view of course and I'm sure some people would prefer to see England win the World Cup

Yes but for normal people it's not an either/or situation.

[westboy]

Short term you can't get both, long term there is the potential for both. It's basically the same question as are their too many foreigners in the prem?

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Short term you can't get both, long term there is the potential for both. It's basically the same question as are their too many foreigners in the prem?

Foreigners aren't a problem. Although everyone seems to think it's their fault there's a decline.

[bluemoon]

you just have to see some academy games to see british talent, i know City academy can sometimes be more entertaining than the first team. Or watch under 21 level football. Richards, Baines, Huddlestone, Onouha are all examples of quality english players coming though

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Some poeple talk crap, there are alot of players coming through for England. There are already some young exceptional players in the big leagues such as Rooney, Walcott, lennon, Wright-Phillips, Agbonlahor and Foster to name a few.

Yeah I know what you mean. Not being picky (it's not in my nature) but the last three you mentioned are late developers, in this case I'm talking boy wonders.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

English talent is doing just fine.

He may not have come up on the radar yet but Nicky Ajose (Manchester United), looks a talented lad, little and black.

If only he was a bit quicker.

[Nafe]

On paper, the England squad looks strong, however when they play sometimes its horrible. For some reason they just won't play to there standards and as an England fan you find yourself frustrated.
I think its how football academies promote there youth, there passion to play but a lot of it is money too. It depends on what walk of life the youth go down, many see the football industry as a gold mine and go to clubs like Chelsea where they get paid but don't get played.

For instance, SWP, £21 million pound move from Manchester City, sure it sounds great at first but when the manager has a spending spree, where did he find himself? Come on during a game, substituted, playing for the reserves more than he will first team matches.
Hes been at Chelsea for how long? 2-3 years and thats wasted. What i'm trying to say is, if teams/academies knew how to adapt the youth well enough, then we'd see alot more English players in top teams.

Micheal Owen looked amazing the first time we got to see him play, think that was for the under 15's and he was quality. Don't doubt him now but since moving from Liverpool its been a nightmare for him.

Theo Walcott, 17 years old, getting regular first team play and every time hes come on for us, hes worked it perfectly. I'm telling you, the youth at Arsenal is quality.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

The Arse have a very clever little schemer in Jake Wiltshire, he's unusually good at slipping clever through balls to the forwards, most unusual vision - you don't see much of that about.

He's Bostocks understudy for the u16s.

[bluemoon]

On paper, the England squad looks strong, however when they play sometimes its horrible. For some reason they just won't play to there standards and as an England fan you find yourself frustrated.
I think its how football academies promote there youth, there passion to play but a lot of it is money too. It depends on what walk of life the youth go down, many see the football industry as a gold mine and go to clubs like Chelsea where they get paid but don't get played.

For instance, SWP, £21 million pound move from Manchester City, sure it sounds great at first but when the manager has a spending spree, where did he find himself? Come on during a game, substituted, playing for the reserves more than he will first team matches.
Hes been at Chelsea for how long? 2-3 years and thats wasted. What i'm trying to say is, if teams/academies knew how to adapt the youth well enough, then we'd see alot more English players in top teams.

Micheal Owen looked amazing the first time we got to see him play, think that was for the under 15's and he was quality. Don't doubt him now but since moving from Liverpool its been a nightmare for him.

Theo Walcott, 17 years old, getting regular first team play and every time hes come on for us, hes worked it perfectly. I'm telling you, the youth at Arsenal is quality.

I agree with everything you said, the problem these days is money clubs like Chelsea who dont have an academy thats that good but have the money to try and nick all the good players from the other academys.

Your also dead right about the quality of Arsenals youth. I rememeber a carling cup game a few years ago at our place and the whooped our first team 3 1. I think Allidiere was playing and a few others who have made the break through into the first team.

I alsot think its up to the manager if they want to have foreign players as they dont really care about the England team. THe England squad i think there are two many "world class" players and when they are put on the same pitch they cant work as a team.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

I'm telling you, the youth at Arsenal is quality.

That Mumba? lad (another good English name)- the new Viera supposedly is on loan at Birmingham, doesn't seem to figure much lately for some reason.

They're on Sky tonight.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Just to note belatedly, England u16s in the final game against the Jocks played better football than I was expecting, as it's usually a battle and football tends to go out the window. But there was a lot of very good skill, technique and intelligent passing from the England side. It was a cracking game and very promising for the future. Trevor Brooking said he was impressed and thought 5/6 of the attacking/flair players would be well worth following in the future.

Very encouraging indeed.

[Nafe]

Just to note belatedly, England u16s in the final game against the Jocks played better football than I was expecting, as it's usually a battle and football tends to go out the window. But there was a lot of very good skill, technique and intelligent passing from the England side. It was a cracking game and very promising for the future. Trevor Brooking said he was impressed and thought 5/6 of the attacking/flair players would be well worth following in the future.

Very encouraging indeed.
Lets hope they don't end up in Chelsea's camp, that'll be a generation put to waste.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Lets hope they don't end up in Chelsea's camp, that'll be a generation put to waste.
Funnily enough according to today's "People" Chelsea are prepared to fork out up to £1.5m for one of em, Dean Parrett (15) QPR.

He's very like James Milner, but a bit livelier.

[Ronaldo]

We won't see him again if that's true. They'll have to pay more than 1.5m won't they in compensation? I thought there was a rule in England that if you buy a player under 18 you have to pay quite alot.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

They'll have to pay more than 1.5m won't they in compensation? I thought there was a rule in England that if you buy a player under 18 you have to pay quite alot.

No if QPR are prepared to take the money the deal is done and all above board.

If they're a bit short of cash and thinking of today and not tomorrow, which is usually the way, the managers neck on the line and all that...

They'll be after Bostock next.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Phil Parkes has picked his player to look out for in 2007, and it's not Danny Rose, it's the little ginger Judas twat

Michael Woods.

Leeds will rue the day he was stolen.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

I was wondering if Woods would get a little run out yesterday.

He did. Not bad for a little 16 year old ginger.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

According to today's People one of the special talents mentioned in the opening cracking post, Nathan Porritt is to be nicked by Liverpool in the next fews weeks.

Boro will be livid.

[Cumbrians]

I wouldn't say there is a big shortage in up and coming talent.. it's just English players cost so much more than foriegn players so they are overlooked most of the time.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

I wouldn't say there is a big shortage in up and coming talent..

There's not of course, we've never had it so good.

[Lennon Saviour of E]

Pearce made a very interesting comment relating to the "We have no English players coming through because of them pesky foreigners" argument, when he said: 20 years ago he played for the u21s as an overage player, when very few in the squad had any sort of first team experience. As opposed to NOW.

Interesting eh?