View Full Version : Fergie: Southgate's naive
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 18:26
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=433362&CPID=8&title=Fergie:+Southgate's+naive&lid=&channel=Premiership&f=rss&clid=1
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What a ******, he says he's seen the penalty 1000 times and he said it was not a dive, he lost his balance. So what is he saying now, if you lose your balance you get a penalty?
He dived, its clearly seen, this has nothing to do with the England incident earlier in the year, Ronaldo was called a cheat and a diving twat ever since he's been at Manchester United. For dickhead Fergusson to say they condole it is just stupid.
COME ON CHELSEA!!! Win the league, i've fell out with United, i did want them to win the league but not anymore, they will not cheat and then win the league.
I thought Fergie a man who has been in football how many years would notice that was a dive? Fergie and Ronaldo are twats.
yeah lol, its pathetic!:eek:
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 18:34
Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qMOHvmt6po
He jumps in the air off his right foot, Not fergie should realise this is a dive. Never mind he's getting old now isn't it.
Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qMOHvmt6po
He jumps in the air off his right foot, Not fergie should realise this is a dive. Never mind he's getting old now isn't it.
F*** HELL! no f*** touch! lol, true Fergie got older! lol
my god...why not Ronaldo own his up!!??:mad: :mad:
RedRabbit
05-12-2006, 18:42
quite the dive indeed! give that man an Oscar!
I thought fergie was a respectable manager but it seems not.
If the shoe was on the other foot, it would be a very different matter. He would want someone to be punished for it.
I'm with BB, I wanted Man UItd to win the league but I'm thinking otherwise now.
I didn't want manu to win the league but I did have a bit of respect for fergie after all he's done.
I can't believe he's come out with comments like that, it's patronising to Southgate, and it's just not true. It's not like he's been mis-quoted either
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 18:50
I didn't want manu to win the league but I did have a bit of respect for fergie after all he's done.
I can't believe he's come out with comments like that, it's patronising to Southgate, and it's just not true. It's not like he's been mis-quoted either
Like cliffy said, if it was a middlesbrough player who done this to united, there would be hell on and he would want Video replays and he would probably demand punishment for the player which the FA would give in to and they would probably ban the player.
I didn't want manu to win the league but I did have a bit of respect for fergie after all he's done.
I can't believe he's come out with comments like that, it's patronising to Southgate, and it's just not true. It's not like he's been mis-quoted either
I think its totally disrespectful, especially to a young, new manager.
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 18:56
Hopefully Southgate won't listen to him, Fergie thinks he's the bees knees but to be honest he's just a whinging old bastard who should have left United years ago.
Nice to see Fergie with some fire in his belly.
Word of the day lads: Intent.
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 19:06
Intent!!!!
Ok so if you had a shot cleared of the line, the intent was there to score so should it be allowed. That doesn't come into the argument, the intent was to get the ball, he issed the ball and the player as Ronaldo was in mid flight.
Does it say that in the rules of the game?
It does say :
Direct Free Kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following six offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
* kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
* trips or attempts to trip an opponent
* jumps at an opponent
* charges an opponent
* strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
* pushes an opponent
Attempts to. ie Intent.
boro_boy
05-12-2006, 19:11
Does it say that in the rules of the game?
It does say :
Direct Free Kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following six offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
* kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
* trips or attempts to trip an opponent
* jumps at an opponent
* charges an opponent
* strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
* pushes an opponent
Attempts to. ie Intent.
Doesn't say anythign about attempting to get the ball does it. :)
Doesn't say anythign about attempting to get the ball does it. :)
lol
Also, Schwarzer wasn't trying to trip Ronaldo, so showing them rules is pointless because they have nothing to do with what happened (or what didnt happen)
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
He was too slow Ronaldo took it past him
Ronaldo loses balance and falls
Ref awards penalty.
The ref believed that Schwarzer had fouled Ronaldo because while he tried to get the ball he didn't causing the player to lose control.
Easy innit.
almouchie
05-12-2006, 19:23
its a fair line, thou in PL its an issue that keeps happening everyweekend
cristano ronaldo seems to be real good at dribbling & falling as well.
its a shame a very talented players needs to revert to such measures.
at least if he didnt dive, he sure did go down easy as he does on several occasion
my comment is more to ferguson for saying southgate is naive, that not the place of a top manager to talk about a newbie, its uncalled for.
many saw ronaldo make a meal of it, & boro manager is allowed to have his say, thou it shouldnt all be about that in the press conference.
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
He was too slow Ronaldo took it past him
Ronaldo loses balance and falls
Ref awards penalty.
from that youtube clip it's more like
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
He was too slow and Ronaldo took it past him
He makes minimal contact if any, certainly not enough to make him fall.
Ref awards penalty because it looks genuine.
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
He was too slow Ronaldo took it past him
Ronaldo loses balance and falls
Ref awards penalty.
The ref believed that Schwarzer had fouled Ronaldo because while he tried to get the ball he didn't causing the player to lose control.
Easy innit.
not really
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
Ronaldo tried to take it past him
Ronaldo dives like the cheating ****er he is
Ref rewards ronaldo for diving by giving a penalty.
even if he did lose his balance (which he never) it still shouldn't have been a penalty and dont say he put him off on a goal scoring opportunity.
basically what i said only i put it politely!
basically what i said only i put it politely!
lol, I was just translating yours from polite to boro fan. :D
it was what i wanted to say really
not really
Schwarzer charged out trying to get the ball
Ronaldo tried to take it past him
Ronaldo dives like the cheating ****er he is
Ref rewards ronaldo for diving by giving a penalty.
even if he did lose his balance (which he never) it still shouldn't have been a penalty and dont say he put him off on a goal scoring opportunity.
Round and round and round http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4458/imagephplz2.gif
At the end of the day those clips show that Scharzer tried to get the ball, didn't and didn't make any significant contact with Ronaldo either. Anyway Ronaldo should have stayed on his feet and would have scored in an open goal...but he had to cheat.
INTENT
The referee judged that the intent was there to foul. Just like with Gerrard at Sheffield United.
The refs were wrong on both occasions because both times the player dived. Watching that clip can you honestly say the Keeper intended to bring Ronaldo down?
I'll use the anology Fergie used yesterday.
You're going at 70mph and the car in front brakes suddenly, what do you do? Crash into it or swerve out of the way.
And it seems the real bone to pick here is the intepretation of the rule. Or the rule itself.
Morning westy.
I'll use the anology Fergie used yesterday.
You're going at 70mph and the car in front brakes suddenly, what do you do? Crash into it or swerve out of the way.
So in that case a player can just jump out the way and get a free-kick/penalty if the defender attempts a challenge where he is trying to get the ball.
Right I'm going to put this in a different context. I play Sunday league and the other week I got the ball and put myself in a position where I had to get fouled by the opposing player, is that cheating because I exploited* him?
The point I'm trying to make is he went for the ball but didn't get to it and therefore it's a foul. Despite the fact Schwarzer went for the ball he was no where near it. And thats the fact at the end of the day.
But in every part of football you try and fully exploit a situation to gain advantage for your team. If Schwarzer had got the ball we wouldn't been having this argument.
*exploited is a strong word.
boro_boy
06-12-2006, 11:14
He dived, the keeper didn't touch him. It wasn't a penalty. Have you been brain washed or something, everyone is going along the same lines except you, who though it was a penalty. It wasn't a penalty, he jumped out of the way and he could have easily stayed on his feet, but he fell so that wasa "dive" and he got the penalty. Simple as that "init"
fergies analysis was funny.
'The keeper came out to stop ronaldo scoring. Its a penalty.'
So are keepers meant to let players score now?
I'm leaving it there.
I've made my argument, you've made yours. I can't be fussed going round and round for another few pages.
boro_boy
06-12-2006, 11:18
fergies analysis was funny.
'The keeper came out to stop ronaldo scoring. Its a penalty.'
So are keepers meant to let players score now?
yeah he's sounding a little dumb at the moment, its funny as everyone exept united fans and the **** wit himself can't understand why we are whinging.
If he had dived just once then it would not have been that bad, but he dived again about 5 min later and they won a free kick, he needs to be punished.
boro_boy
06-12-2006, 11:18
I'm leaving it there.
I've made my argument, you've made yours. I can't be fussed going round and round for another few pages.
yeah fair enough as its going round and round, i'll stand by what i say and you stand by what you say. :)
But he dived :)
:P
Just for clarification, I never talked about the free kick decision.
boro_boy
06-12-2006, 11:24
:P
Just for clarification, I never talked about the free kick decision.
Yeah i know you didn't. But they are exaclythe same.
If I recall correctly, the ref (Was it Halsey?) was positioned in direct sight of it so surely he could have made the call?
I'll need to check.
Yep. He was square on. The ref should be able to call that.
And seriously, watching the penalty again, the slow mo replays do him no justice. Ronaldo was running at full pace and had to suddenly change direction. You could see why he lost his balance.
boro_boy
06-12-2006, 11:35
Yep. He was square on. The ref should be able to call that.
And seriously, watching the penalty again, the slow mo replays do him no justice. Ronaldo was running at full pace and had to suddenly change direction. You could see why he lost his balance.
Bollocks it was a 50/50 run they both went for the ball, Ronaldo got it, then Dived in mid air, and shwazer didn't make ANY contact, i don't know why people are saying he made minimal contact when clearly you can'y see any contact at all.
I never said he made contact ? :confused:
Did you read my post?
if he doesnt make contact, then its not a penalty. simple as that. Schwarzers a keeper, he's meant to stop players scoring. How many times have keepers put people off scoring and made them 'lose their balance' and a penalty been given.
You could say milan should have been allowed to take all their penalties again against liverpool because dudek was putting them off.
Its all total bollox. It was no way a penalty, simple as that!
Right I'm going to put this in a different context. I play Sunday league and the other week I got the ball and put myself in a position where I had to get fouled by the opposing player, is that cheating because I exploited* him?
The point I'm trying to make is he went for the ball but didn't get to it and therefore it's a foul. Despite the fact Schwarzer went for the ball he was no where near it. And thats the fact at the end of the day.
But as you've said he didn't make contact. And you've just said he went for the ball so there was no intent
I could go for the ball and foul someone.
Just as Schwarzer went for the ball but didn't get near it and caused Ronaldo to lose his balance.
The intent would wall under this I reckon:
* trips or attempts to trip an opponent
While he didn't touch him, the ref believed that Schwarze caused Ronaldo to fall.
This is hard due to the bloody vagueness of the rules.
And I said I'd stop doing this.
but schwarzer was obviously not planning on rushing out only to trip ronaldo. There was no intentions of tripping him up. The intention was to get the ball because no one else was trying to.
I could go for the ball and foul someone.
Just as Schwarzer went for the ball but didn't get near it and caused Ronaldo to lose his balance.
The intent would wall under this I reckon:
* trips or attempts to trip an opponent
While he didn't touch him, the ref believed that Schwarze caused Ronaldo to fall.
This is hard due to the bloody vagueness of the rules.
And I said I'd stop doing this.
The ref gave the penalty because he thought their was contact, presumeably not because he thought Ronaldo dived or was put off by Schwarzer
So if I caught you from behind but I was going for the ball would it be a foul or not?
The ref gave the penalty because he thought their was contact, presumeably not because he thought Ronaldo dived or was put off by Schwarzer
According to you.
Why did the ref give Gerrards penalty?
It would be a foul because you caught me. Keeper didn't catch Ronaldo.
Why don't you ask him but my guess would be that it was because Gerrard went to the ground in a way that suggested the defender tripped him
in respect to the title of the thread, I think its fergie who is being naive
Simonutd
06-12-2006, 12:16
it was a pen end of story, and if you dont see it as a pen you just a united hater which most of you are and if the books were turned arround, you would be saying the keeper slid in with intent to get the player had no chance of gettin the ball, the palyer tried to move around the keeper lost his balance and went down, the keep made him loose his balance so it is a pen,
ronaldo could have scored if he handnt gone down and he would know that and you all know that so at the end of the day it was a goal anyway and you would stil have lost 2-1 ,
it was a pen end of story, and if you dont see it as a pen you just a united hater which most of you are and if the books were turned arround, you would be saying the keeper slid in with intent to get the player had no chance of gettin the ball, the palyer tried to move around the keeper lost his balance and went down, the keep made him loose his balance so it is a pen,
ronaldo could have scored if he handnt gone down and he would know that and you all know that so at the end of the day it was a goal anyway and you would stil have lost 2-1 ,
He would have known he could have scored so therefore tried to get the keeper sent off. Anyway it's his natural reaction to dive
not really. If it was the other way round I would be a man and admit it wasn't a penalty because it clearly wasn't. And fergie would be calling for the ref's head.
And we could have one the game or at least got a point from it. We didnt play bad in the second half, we just had a moment of complacency and we should have closed ronaldo down instead of standing there and watching him before he played it to giggs
LMAO nice sig westboy
Although to be fair Kiko has a point Gerrard did a similar thing earlier in the season and no-one battered an eye-lid, there is a certain media frenzy when it comes to Ronaldo but that's only because he cheated and got the media darling wayne rooney sent off.
Gerrard of course never dived in the world cup.
It definetly a wonder why all the media say he dived and supporters of boro and aslo other clubs say he did, yet only man utd supporter say he never.
They must be counting on ronaldo to cheat them to the title
It definetly a wonder why all the media say he dived and supporters of boro and aslo other clubs say he did, yet only man utd supporter say he never.
They must be counting on ronaldo to cheat them to the title
That's a bit pathetic isn't it. One penalty and suddenly we're relying on cheating.
It's ok though.
Although to be fair Kiko has a point Gerrard did a similar thing earlier in the season and no-one battered an eye-lid, there is a certain media frenzy when it comes to Ronaldo but that's only because he cheated and got the media darling wayne rooney sent off.
Gerrard of course never dived in the world cup.
Thank god. I just wanted a bit of middle ground. :D
We both have our views on it. At least it's rattled up a bit of a debate something this board needs!
Add to the end of this:
When an English player dives the attitude is "Haha well you know, learning of those continetals! arf!"
A foreigner "BLOODY HORRIBLE SEND EM HOME BASTARDOS!"
Shearer and co with there one eyed rubbishness.
Finally, English players dived way before the introduction of foriegners.
RedRabbit
06-12-2006, 12:52
I think the reason people criticize Ronaldo on diving is that he over plays it . We (as spectators) know that he's over playing it but it gets us frustrated when the ref doesn't see the way we do.
ps nice sig westboy!
wednesday4life
06-12-2006, 13:33
So if I caught you from behind but I was going for the ball would it be a foul or not?
well, the fact that tackling from behind has been banned since 96, you could win the ball and it would still be a foul
and ronaldos was a dive- how can anyone look at that and defend it. he's a cheat. he's done this since he got here, if he wants to ever be classed as a good player he needs to cut this out
Well mr wednesday4life, I think despite your protestations he is already classed a good player!
Better than that even!
Well if you're going to be pedantic, if it was a 50/50 ball I went in the other player got to it first and I caught him would it be a foul? I went for the ball.
Simonutd
06-12-2006, 13:59
end of the day if he hadnt gone down under the challege, he would have scored as you have all said, so i dont see why your saying we won caused we dived
wednesday4life
06-12-2006, 14:06
Well mr wednesday4life, I think despite your protestations he is already classed a good player!
Better than that even!
Well if you're going to be pedantic, if it was a 50/50 ball I went in the other player got to it first and I caught him would it be a foul? I went for the ball.you would have caught him, yes?
therefore it would be a foul
and he is only classed as better than a good player by certain pundits with an obvious bias towards big clubs- he's a cheat to everyone else
you would have caught him, yes?
therefore it would be a foul
and he is only classed as better than a good player by certain pundits with an obvious bias towards big clubs- he's a cheat to everyone else
not really true. I can't stand him, but I still say he is a quality player apart from his theatrics.
you would have caught him, yes?
therefore it would be a foul
and he is only classed as better than a good player by certain pundits with an obvious bias towards big clubs- he's a cheat to everyone else
I think he's a cheat and everything else but like 99% of everyone else he's a talented player. He doesn't need to cheat
i think its better, lets ask Notts Ref!!
Hey, Notts Ref, what do you think of video? is it penalty or not?
Thats simply answer - yes or no.:rolleyes:
Thats we want answer!;)
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