View Full Version : The future demise of English football! Talent set to dry up!
Lennon Saviour of E
15-06-2007, 19:12
It's claimed there will be a crisis in five years and after as we're not producing young quality players as we did in the golden olden days. Yet we have such unusually talented young players such as Rooney, Lennon and Walcott, with Danny Sturridge on his way, and I'm wondering when we had such talent in the past at that age. Any idea when this was? I must have missed it.
If young English talent isn't getting a chance I'm puzzled why the youngest players ever to play in the Premier League include the likes of Lennon, Milner, Vaughan, and Rooney. I can't help noticing a common denominator here. They're all English and were all 16 year old school leavers. 16 is a bit young to play in the Premiership isn't it? Too young some might say, but surely it can't be claimed they are being held back.
I'm aware some of the top clubs have a shocking record of producing English talent for some time now, and Fergie for one isn't happy about it. But the good news for him is that he's now got a real quality talent in schoolboy Danny Welbeck, who is a member of the talent laden England u17 squad. Also he's got three likely lads in the
u16 squad, a team that player a very high standard of "technical" football unlike in the past. But it's best not to draw conclusions on individuals until they go full time next year. Unless of course an obviously special talent emerges, as has been more frequently happening in recent years than in the past, such as Rooney, Lennon, Sturridge and now the latest 14 year old precocious talent to emerge, John Bostock of Crystal Palace.
Even Arsenal are now coming up with their own quality English players with Rhy Murphy and others.
There's quite a pool of talented midfield/attacking players in the u16s and u17s and I'm not talking about the Kevin Nolan/ Joey Barton/ Jenas the Plank limited types.
And yet Big Sam and Graham Taylor have been leading the brigade of doom-mongers.
I think people look at the fact that there are alot of foreigners in the premiership and assume that it's at the expense of English talent being developed. However you can't hide from the fact that there has been precious little British talent coming through though. Out of the players you name, Rooney is the only one who has made it at international level, performing well for his club and country in european competitions. Lennon and Walcott have got the potential but haven't made it.
16 isn't too young to play in the premiership if you consider that they'll be playing limited time and giving 10 minutes to a youngster in a premiership game can be invaluable to him and we all know what happened when Moyes brought Rooney on with the game at 1-1 against Arsenal...
I_AM_CANADIAN!
15-06-2007, 19:29
Well to be honest in the 1990's England had a lot more great players to choose from than they do now, Shearer, Sheringham, Beckham, Gazza, Neville, Scholes, Owen, Ince, etc. but that happens in a lot of countries...
Look at France and Portugal, France have only had two decent teams, in the eighties with Platini and Battiston, and then now with all those old guys who won the World Cup in 98 and are retiring now. And Portugal have only been good for the last 5 or so years.
Lennon Saviour of E
15-06-2007, 19:33
Out of the players you name, Rooney is the only one who has made it at international level, performing well for his club and country in european competitions. Lennon and Walcott have got the potential but haven't made it.
Well I am going well down the pipe line. That's what the argument is about. Lennon is clearly the best English wing talent to come through in the last 40 years. That has been evident since he was 15.
Not an expert on world football but surely even if you include Lennon, other countries have produced more than two players...
Lennon Saviour of E
15-06-2007, 19:59
Not an expert on world football but surely even if you include Lennon, other countries have produced more than two players...
I'm not interested in other countries. I'm just saying there are more real English talents coming through now than before. They used to be rare. I mentioned six cracking creative/attacking types, (and not including Walcott by the way).
Well I am going well down the pipe line. That's what the argument is about. Lennon is clearly the best English wing talent to come through in the last 40 years. That has been evident since he was 15.
Hence, Lennon Saviour Of E[ngland]
He is a fantasic player, he just needs a chance. But with Beckhams free Kicks playing a major part in our last 2 games, and McClaren saying Beckham going to the MLS won't affect his chances, leaves a long wait for him.
I'm not interested in other countries. I'm just saying there are more real English talents coming through now than before. They used to be rare. I mentioned six cracking creative/attacking types, (and not including Walcott by the way).
There is fantastic English talent coming through at the minute. Look at the U21's, U19's and the U17's. Fantastic players and a lot of them have great flair. I think the new generation of English talent is something that is a lot different to the past.
In my eye's, that old English hardman stereotype is soon to die. A new brand of English football is coming and it's going to be top class.
Lennon Saviour of E
15-06-2007, 21:05
Hence, Lennon Saviour Of E[ngland]
He is a fantasic player, he just needs a chance. But with Beckhams free Kicks playing a major part in our last 2 games, and McClaren saying Beckham going to the MLS won't affect his chances, leaves a long wait for him.
It doesn't actually. I always saw him on the left for England.
I'm not interested in other countries. I'm just saying there are more real English talents coming through now than before. They used to be rare. I mentioned six cracking creative/attacking types, (and not including Walcott by the way).
Big Sam and Graham Taylor probably haven't done as much research as you and are looking at the players who have come through rather than those coming through.
It doesn't actually. I always saw him on the left for England.
Whats the point in playing him on the left? we have Joe Cole, Downing and Barry..
Lennon is a proven right winger, there is no point playing him out of position.
Well to be honest in the 1990's England had a lot more great players to choose from than they do now, Shearer, Sheringham, Beckham, Gazza, Neville, Scholes, Owen, Ince, etc. but that happens in a lot of countries...
Look at France and Portugal, France have only had two decent teams, in the eighties with Platini and Battiston, and then now with all those old guys who won the World Cup in 98 and are retiring now. And Portugal have only been good for the last 5 or so years.
Er I would say the previous golden generation would disagree!
Figo, Rui Costa et al.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 10:30
Well to be honest in the 1990's England had a lot more great players to choose from than they do now, Shearer, Sheringham, Beckham, Gazza, Neville, Scholes, Owen, Ince, etc. but that happens in a lot of countries...
That's not what we're on about. But anyway we're now in 2007 and Becks, Neville, Owen (and Scholes) are still playing.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 11:02
Did you know Aaron Lennon (TBG) isn't the youngest ever player in the Premership!
Apparently it's a Fulham lad now.
Hes just 16, he was the youngest ever player in the Prem on final day of this season.
Matthew Briggs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Briggs)
Doesn't really mean much though they brought him on for a nothing match...
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 12:38
Doesn't really mean much though they brought him on for a nothing match...
The point is it's pretty amazing a school boy should play in the Prem (first time ever)- particularly as he hasn't got in the u16 squad.
And there was me thinking three appearances for schoolboy Big Tom Elliot (Leeds) in the championship was most unusual - and he can't hold down a place in the u17s.
Can't say I know anything about him (Briggs), is he one for the future?
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 13:04
Can't say I know anything about him (Briggs), is he one for the future?
I'd never even heard of him until now. It came as a bit of a shock. I thought Lennon would hold the record for quite some time.
poolie_chick
16-06-2007, 14:29
Talent has a different definition now than what it did back in like... the 60s or something. Back then if you could run fast and shoot in a fair few goals in a season then you were talented... now it's more about footwork and the pansy stuff that comes with it.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 15:22
Big Sam and Graham Taylor probably haven't done as much research as you and are looking at the players who have come through rather than those coming through.
They seem to be going quite a way down the age groups to 15/16 saying there was nothing there - which is just laughable. (A month later we got to the European Final for the first time ever). :nodyes:
Sam came out with the bollock brained comment a few months back that, "Spurs did well to identify Lennon". :hahaha:
Talent has a different definition now than what it did back in like... the 60s or something. Back then if you could run fast and shoot in a fair few goals in a season then you were talented... now it's more about footwork and the pansy stuff that comes with it.
That's rubbish.
Yeah that Best, Stanley, Charlton, Lee, Pele were proper naff. :rolleyes:
bluemoon
16-06-2007, 18:59
i have been to a few of the youth games at City, you get in for a fiver, well more entertaining than the first team, and its been brilliant to watch, much more goals and loads of talented youngsters. City won there academy league i think and therell be a few you dont make it, but i think to say that there will be know quality players. and i know City arent all English, theres some quality Irish in there two which is what i like to see.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 20:20
i have been to a few of the youth games at City, you get in for a fiver,
That will be the cup games presumably.
Hopefully Sturridge will start getting games once the season starts. He's getting on a bit now. He'll be 18 soon.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 20:40
I've just been watching the tape of England u16s against the Jocks. What a fuckin' game and performance, I can see this lot winning the European Title next season.
They could do with coming up with a shit-hot goal scorer if I'm being picky.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 20:41
Are you a scout, lennon?
Sort of. :nod:
Sort of. :nod:
Cool. Are you with any club?
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 20:57
Sort of. :nod:
That will be why your so interested in the youngsters then.
He's not a scout with any club. I searched his name on footy manager :LolLolLolLol:
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:03
Cool. Are you with any club?
I meant not in the real sense. So not at all. :icon_redface:
I think I used the wrong smiley. :icon_redface:
(I've only recently started to use em)
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:05
That will be why your so interested in the youngsters then.
I'm just interested. I suppose I should start watching Soaps instead. :animatedfear:
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 21:18
I meant not in the real sense. So not at all. :icon_redface:
I think I used the wrong smiley. :icon_redface:
(I've only recently started to use em)
lol, but you are very much interested in the "future" of England, eg, the youngsters, rather than the current players by the sound of it.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:23
Interestingly, someone asked me to go on a Arsenal site, a little new one, I found it amusing (or whatever the word) to stick up an old post about Murphy. They'd never heard of him.
The most avid and knowledgeable youth fans are Leeds. It's since I was banging on about him years ago under the name of LSOE. I got all sorts of abuse, they didn't believe me. He was still at school and they'd never heard of him. But now there isn't a youth player at the club they don't know about. And it's nothing to do with me.
Once bitten and all that, perhaps. :nod:
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 21:26
Interestingly, someone asked me to go on a Arsenal site, a little new one, I found it amusing (or whatever the word) to stick up an old post about Murphy. They'd never heard of him.
The most avid and knowledgeable youth fans are Leeds. It's since I was banging on about him years ago under the name of LSOE. I got all sorts of abuse, they didn't believe me. He was still at school and they'd never heard of him. But now there isn't a youth player at the club they don't know about. And it's nothing to do with me.
Once bitten and all that, perhaps. :nod:
You seem very knowledgeable i'll admit that, much better like this than posting the newspaper reports lol. But I suppose you just feel strongly about what he says.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:30
eg, the youngsters, rather than the current players by the sound of it.
I never miss a senior game. In fact I watch each one twice. (that's a bit weird in itself you might say). And I want them to win.
But the players are a bit "old hat" - nothing new to provide any er, stimulus. Maybe nothing much to say after the game other than - "Fucking hell not again".
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 21:33
I never miss a senior game. In fact I watch each one twice. (that's a bit weird in itself you might say). And I want them to win.
But the players are a bit "old hat" - nothing new to provide any er, stimulus. Maybe nothing much to say after the game other than - "Fucking hell not again".
yeah the seniors are always the same, nothing really changes with the style they play. Doesn't even change if a new manager comes into the team.
I don't have time to watch the reserves due to weekly exams and stuff. also the fact that I'm down Portsmouth. I only ever went to one Reserve game when we signed Doriva, that was £1 entry lol.
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:36
You seem very knowledgeable i'll admit that, much better like this than posting the newspaper reports lol. But I suppose you just feel strongly about what he says.
He's a genius and a joy. What's wrong with spreading a little joy?
If people are unable to appreciate, or hate him with a vengeance they can just leave it alone. I don't open 99% of threads anywhere myself, and avoid shit progs on the telly.
It's like an off button I suppose.
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 21:44
Yeah I suppose, I don't read papers, but if one it lying about I may read the sport or Financial bits, plus page 3. I don't read books either!!! I have a short attention span.
Some of the Littlejohn stuff you post is ok
Lennon Saviour of E
16-06-2007, 21:50
I don't have time to watch the reserves due to weekly exams and stuff.
Going to a reserve game is fucking hard work. Not so bad if you have the new Lennon or someone of interest.
Someone on here said he goes every week, that would fucking kill me. I remember games years ago and I'd come away thinking I'd never watch any football ever again. It did my head in.
But sometimes a man has to do what a ...
boro_boy
16-06-2007, 21:52
Going to a reserve game is fucking hard work. Not so bad if you have the new Lennon or someone of interest.
Someone on here said he goes every week, that would fucking kill me. I remember games years ago and I'd come away thinking I'd never watch any football ever again. It did my head in.
But sometimes a man has to do what a ...
yeah I totally agree with you. :)
The reserves match was boring, about 4,000 people turned up for it. lol. So there were plenty of people there, well for a reserve game anyway. We were cheering for him to take all the free kicks. He's shite though.
I'd go and watch the youth if I could get a lift down to Carrington.
I went to about 6 reserves games last year and it was blatantly obvious that the majority wouldn't make it in Uniteds first team.
poolie_chick
17-06-2007, 11:01
That's rubbish.
Yeah that Best, Stanley, Charlton, Lee, Pele were proper naff. :rolleyes:
No, I didn't say they were naff... I'm saying back then, it was more like "footballers are proper men"... you do what football requires - you run, and you score.... now, it's more like men will be pansies and dance around the ball for a while before being greedy gits and not passing to someone who is in a good position all for the sake of scoring the goal themselves.
bluemoon
17-06-2007, 11:10
I go to a lot of the reserve and youth games, i think there really good, much better than the first team action we saw last season.
I saw the Manchester Cup, that was a good competition, for the reserves.
No, I didn't say they were naff... I'm saying back then, it was more like "footballers are proper men"... you do what football requires - you run, and you score.... now, it's more like men will be pansies and dance around the ball for a while before being greedy gits and not passing to someone who is in a good position all for the sake of scoring the goal themselves.
You're just talking nonsense. Football has not changed in the fundamentals.
Lennon Saviour of E
17-06-2007, 13:44
[QUOTE=kiko;55699]I'd go and watch the youth if I could get a lift down to Carrington.
QUOTE]
Youth football is far more entertaining. You should have a good Youth Cup side next year (at OT when poss) with five quality England youth players and out with some of the old guard.
Oh I don't doubt it. Like I said though, I don't know anyone who would want to drive down which is a shame.
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