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Harold

Scotland...Politics related

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Rather than separate (pun not intended) threads to do with specific Scottish political topics let's keep everything if possible in here.

Cheers.

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4 hours ago, Harold said:

Rather than separate (pun not intended) threads to with specific Scottish political topics let's keep everything if possible in here.

Cheers.

Why not move all relevant posts here?

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15 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

Why not move all relevant posts here?

Can't....couldn't find an option (BB says software doesn't permit it). 

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I am no expert here, but from what I saw and remember this was a once in a life time vote and was signed off against it being so.

If that was the case then that should be the end of it until the amount of population who voted stay are dead.

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2 hours ago, Harold said:

Can't....couldn't find an option (BB says software doesn't permit it). 

No sweat.

Re the ""once in a lifetime" statement":-

Salmond and Sturgeon are two politicians for whom you have little or no respect, so I find it strange that you would use anything they might say in support of your opinions.

In any case the fact that one of them made that statement and that they pledged to respect the result of the referendum is not really a logical argument against another referendum being held.

There has been a serious change in circumstances since the independence referendum and that alone could be seen as sufficient reason to revisit the issue. 

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11 hours ago, Hairy Scot said:

Salmond and Sturgeon are two politicians for whom you have little or no respect, so I find it strange that you would use anything they might say in support of your opinions.

What they said was their opinion & I would expect them to stand by & honour what they said & signed.

11 hours ago, Hairy Scot said:

In any case the fact that one of them made that statement and that they pledged to respect the result of the referendum is not really a logical argument against another referendum being held.

Why ? Or are you content with the fact that two highly respected politicians (not by me but you get what I mean I take it), one a former first minister & the other the present first minister, made clear & concise statements & signed a legal document but these acts are now seen to have misled the population ?

11 hours ago, Hairy Scot said:

There has been a serious change in circumstances since the independence referendum and that alone could be seen as sufficient reason to revisit the issue. 

Absolutely not. The terms of the Edinburgh Agreement (nor their statements) did not say they would respect the result...'unless something they didn't like or agree with occurred'.

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19 minutes ago, Harold said:

What they said was their opinion & I would expect them to stand by & honour what they said & signed.

Why ? Or are you content with the fact that two highly respected politicians (not by me but you get what I mean I take it), one a former first minister & the other the present first minister, made clear & concise statements & signed a legal document but these acts are now seen to have misled the population ?

Absolutely not. The terms of the Edinburgh Agreement (nor their statements) did not say they would respect the result...'unless something they didn't like or agree with occurred'.

Really mate, I know you are not quite as old or cynical as I am, but I cannot believe that you are so naive as to take anything said by a politician at face value.

That aside, it matters not one whit what Salmond or Sturgeon may say or do. What is important is the will of the Scots. Do they wish to be tied to the UK?

I would not have the temerity to suggest that the Independence Referendum was flawed, but it does strike me as strange that persons who were no on the electoral register were allowed to vote. I have no idea whose idea that was but regardless of which side put that in place it has to raise some concerns.

However all that is history.

IMHO, and I am sure many Scots share this view, the whole issue is worthy of a revisit. You and I may pontificate and spout drivel to our heart's content, but the bottom line is that Scotland needs to be master of its own destiny.

 

Edited by Hairy Scot

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14 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

I would not have the temerity to suggest that the Independence Referendum was flawed, but it does strike me as strange that persons who were no on the electoral register were allowed to vote. I have no idea whose idea that was but regardless of which side put that in place it has to raise some concerns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25420827

Who was eligible to vote?

Most people over the age of 16 who live in Scotland were eligible to vote. As with other UK elections, to get a vote you had to register in advance. Unlike other UK elections, 16 and 17 year olds were able to vote in the referendum. 

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16 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

Really mate, I know you are not quite as old or cynical as I am, but I cannot believe that you are so naive as to take anything said by a politician at face value.

That is no excuse for what they have done Hairy. The SNP (being in power) are there to govern the entire country & not solely to pander to their support.

17 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

That aside, it matters not one whit what Salmond or Sturgeon may say or do. What is important is the will of the Scots. Do they wish to be tied to the UK?

As I asked before....'IF' another referendum was permitted and held and it was NO again....when does it end ? Is it simply that it is to continue until they get the result they desire ?

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2 minutes ago, Harold said:

That is no excuse for what they have done Hairy. The SNP (being in power) are there to govern the entire country & not solely to pander to their support.

As I asked before....'IF' another referendum was permitted and held and it was NO again....when does it end ? Is it simply that it is to continue until they get the result they desire ?

Canna answer that one mate.

However, as far as I am concerned, it's not about what politicians want but what the people want.

History shows that being one with England has not been at all advantageous for the average Scot.

But then again, that is my view.  😉

 

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21 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

However, as far as I am concerned, it's not about what politicians want but what the people want.

Certainly has never appeared that way to me....it's all been about what the SNP want. If you mention 'the people' then that MUST include those who have no desire to separate from the UK, but the listening to the people Scottish Executive do not listen to those who have no desire.

25 minutes ago, Hairy Scot said:

History shows that being one with England has not been at all advantageous for the average Scot.

Personally I have never had a problem.

 

You have your opinion, I have mine.....no probs.

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50 minutes ago, Harold said:

 

As I asked before....'IF' another referendum was permitted and held and it was NO again....when does it end ? Is it simply that it is to continue until they get the result they desire ?

Same with Brexit, A once in a lifetime vote, means just that in my opinion too. They can't accept it never went their way, so they want to keep trying until they get the result they want, which may never happen anyhow.

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56 minutes ago, Harold said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25420827

Who was eligible to vote?

Most people over the age of 16 who live in Scotland were eligible to vote. As with other UK elections, to get a vote you had to register in advance. Unlike other UK elections, 16 and 17 year olds were able to vote in the referendum. 

Does i not strike you as strange that people not entitled to vote in general or municipal  elections and  people who are not citizens of the country are allowed to vote in such a referendum?

In any case, as I said, that is water under the bridge.

The central issues remain unresolved and given the current chaos within the UK that will remain unchanged for quite some time.

There is a schism in Britain. It has been there for centuries, and it will remain in place until such time as the electoral system is modified to reflect the will of the people.

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2 hours ago, Hairy Scot said:

Does i not strike you as strange that people not entitled to vote in general or municipal  elections and  people who are not citizens of the country are allowed to vote in such a referendum?

But they are/were residents of the country and on the electoral roll and they are (as far as I know) entitled to vote in any other election mate. The only ones who are not are under 18's.

The will of the people was passed in both the 'separation' & EU referendums.

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2 hours ago, Harold said:

 

The will of the people was passed in both the 'separation' & EU referendums.

Seems the losers tho, are not prepared to accept the will of the people. May i suggest it may be because they have vested interest in certain corporations big banks etc, that will not benefit from what the people want. Just saying like.

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11 minutes ago, The Realist said:

Seems the losers tho, are not prepared to accept the will of the people. May i suggest it may be because they have vested interest in certain corporations big banks etc, that will not benefit from what the people want. Just saying like.

That may well be the case with regards to the EU referendum result but certainly imo the Scottish separation referendum is simply down to being anti English. Scotland more or less runs itself nowadays with all the devolved powers it has....Christ it even has it's own tax collecting powers now with middle earners being absolutely humped....the SNP actually believe that people earning over around £43 K are actually 'high earners' so they tax them accordingly (higher than the rest of the UK). There is no plan, they have no idea of what currency they could use 'if' it ever came to fruition. Their latest effort was the Growth Report which didn't exactly shine a glowing light on 'future after separation'. Considering the black clouds over the NHS, Policing, education in Scotland Sturgeon has previously stated that Independence must be gained at any cost...

Scottish independence is so important it trumps every other issue in politics, including budget deficits and the state of the economy, Nicola Sturgeon said.

 

Nicola Sturgeon has been accused of pursuing indep­endence at “any cost” and abandoning the economic case for leaving the UK. It came after the First Minister claimed that leaving the UK “transcends” the economy, Brexit and oil.

Ms Sturgeon said indep­endence is more important than “oil, national wealth and balance sheets”.

 

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9 hours ago, Harold said:

 Scottish separation referendum is simply down to being anti English.
 

I think it's more about being anti-Westminster.

In a truly self governed Scotland there is no guarantee that the make up of Holyrood would be predominantly SNP.

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Also put this in the 'Things that piss you off thread'....

The difference in price of spirits between Scotland and England. There have been ads on tv the past few days for at least one of the major supermarkets selling their litre bottles of whisky, vodka, rum etc for £15 a ltr bottle. Cheapest I can get my rum at the moment is £18 per ltr bottle at Morrisons. We were in Tescos earlier and it is £19.50 (the absolute minimum price can be no lower than £17.50) & whisky at £20.

Thank you Nicola Sturgeon you tartan clad despot! And to think this bitch is supposed to govern all of the Scottish public and not just to make the responsible suffer to pacify their (Scottish Executive) opinion of the irresponsible!

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As if they haven't got enough to be getting on with up here in Brigadoon, this piece of nonsense really takes the biscuits. It is actually a nonsense that supposed intelligent people become involved in this childish & pathetic madness....

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3621770/gingerbread-man-biscuits-holyrood-scottish-parliament/

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